Right...let's not forget about the law of excluded middle. Many modern logic systems reject the law of excluded middle, replacing it with the concept of negation as failure. That is, there is a third possibility: the truth of a proposition is unknown. (Wikipedia, on the Law of Excluded Middle)
The universe is so big, I don't think we will know for sure. Will take too long and too much energy to travel the vast distances required - unless you really get wormholes or you can do something with quantum entanglement
Corina Marinescu I don't think we ever will, but that does not matter. We let our imagination move us forwards, with a thirst for knowledge and understanding of at least part of the world and universe
Rodney Dawes We basically don't know. It may be unique or it may be ubiquitous. Since we don't understand how the life chain to which we are a part started, we don't know how likely or unlikely it is. Scientists haven't come close to synthesizing it yet.
Agreed Rodney Dawes but I hope you are sarcastic when you say "To think life is somehow special to Earth is just blindly absurd." Look around...people with natural lobotomy are everywhere.
Corina Marinescu actually, for me, it feels like the universe is already all-too-alive, after realizing what Christoph Adami has been talking about it in his wonderful TED talk on "Life we can't Imagine" ( http://www.ted.com/talks/christophe_adami_finding_life_we_can_t_imagine.html ). What do we mean by we and by alone?
Corina Marinescu when I see all the bad things that happen around us, I would like to go and live in a cave, without seeing anybody, but only the mountains and the sea and the little animals, which are better than us.
I think there are endless species out there and the Earth only inhabits some of them. I believe we are not alone and I am not terrified by that but rather intrigued.
Mindey I. sometimes I like to hear other people thoughts...still I said SOMETIMES In short words Adami can talk whatever he wants...I know very well what I mean by WE and by ALONE, I don't need him or anyone else to tell me ;)
Corina Marinescu my name is Dimitris Dogas, I am Greek, I have Phd in Mathematics (non linear analysis), and I have writen Dogas like Dog-us, just for joke. I think I should change it to the real Dogas, but I don't know the conflicts with my registrations. In greek, Mimis is an other name for Dimitris.
I think we're not alone. But will it be life as we know it? I'd like to think so. But, I'm intrigued by the mathematical idea of "initial conditions". So what would life in another part of the universe look like? Don't know. But I'd be real curious.
Phil Tiongson If there is another life somewhere in the Universe, it will be unlikely to have the same "timing" with us in the evolution. And of course, neither the initial nor the boundary conditions would be the same.
Phil Tiongson mimis dog-us That assumes the initial and boundary conditions on Earth are unique, and that life on Earth originated here, and has never had outside interference since the original sprouting of life. Given the theory panspermia refutes that, it's also very possible that the original seeds of life that came here on space debris, may have landed on other planets that were prime for the development of life.
If humans or our descendants ever reach the point of colonizing beyond our section of the galaxy, then even if earth is the sole source of life, we will eventually meet aliens. On a large enough timescale, culture and genome diverge; our own distant relations will become alien to us.
Bryce Etheridge Cool thought! I haven't heard that one before. That would make a great science fiction plot. Now that I say it though, I guess ST:TNG did sort of go there... ;)
I believe that we are alone in the Universe because we can't communicate with the other solar systems, due to the velocity of light, which is very small, considering the distances in the space. And we should not forget the fact that in the Universe the word "now" has not any meaning. Eventhough there exists a civilization somewhere in the Universe, we have to ask, not where but "when" they are.
mimis dog-us Speed of light is irrelevant. As is time. Time does not exist. It is a local concept to deal with our own social problems and to help provide structure to activities on Earth. It also ignores all possible manner of faster than light travel and communication.
Rodney Dawes I think one of us abstracting what Bryce Etheridge said considerably. He suggested that if humanity spreads throughout the universe over millions of years, evolution would cause the various trees of progeny to diverge fairly extremely. In BSG humanity is meeting back up with their robots. Similar idea, but quite different.
Rodney Dawes I hope so. Perhaps in the future the human will find a way to travel or to communicate faster than light. And I have to admit that many times I have thought that the time is an illusion. Thanks.
Sean Walker No. Go watch the original BSG. They meet up with other humans. The new BSG is quite different from the original. And I doubt humanity would diverge much, once we reached that level of advancement. We would be quite adept at dealing with varying environments to the degree of protecting ourselves from mutations that would occur as a result of them, in any sort of natural setting where we were not controlling our own environment to comfort ourselves.
Having connected Corina Marinescu I will never be alone. It's all about connections. Inside the #brain and Outside of it. The truth is out there. Thank you All Google+ connections.
Not to be picky Rodney Dawes but mutations are not a product of environment, they are selected for by environments. Mutation occur necessarily due to recombination and DNA / RNA copying errors. Environment is a selective force in this context that includes all circumstances external to an individual which affect their reproduction - including members of the opposite sex and their varying tastes. So, for example, peacocks' tails aren't selected for by their inanimate environments, but instead by the taste of female peacocks. Anyway, my point is that although an advanced version of us could arrest evolution, they would have to affect quite a bit of control over the mechanics of reproduction (genetic level) and human behaviour to do so... I'm not sure that an advanced society would opt to do that.
Sean Walker And not to be picky, but you're assuming that my use of the word enviornment is purely about the inanimate surroundings. The fact is that peacocks do not alter their surroundings to cater to their needs or desires, while humans do. I also never said that evolution would cease. It would however, be greatly altered. We've already done it here on Earth. We've been doing it for thousands of years. We're not very advanced or great at it yet though, so we end up with side effects that ore detrimental to our own well being, like toxic foods and climate change. But to assume that we will survive long enough to advance to the level of colonizing the galaxy, then I think it's also safe to assume that we would have gotten past all the religious and political nonsense that are forcing us further away from that goal, and understand how to control our own evolution much better than we do, or can even understand what evolution is, today.
I never said that not being ALONE means other type of "humans" are out there. Is about life...other type of species that live in a way or another. I'm not interested to hear sci fi subjects. Universe is vast and full of life. We don't even know how many species live on this planet....but for some psychotic reason we KNOW what's going on in the entire universe? Satire of the burped brains...
Actually Rodney Dawes, I don't give a crap what others wrote...just another human opinions. However some opinions of some humans are digestible, therefore they tickle my fusimotors and demand answers. So is not craziness...just a event horizon at the cellular level ;)
Right...let's not forget about the law of excluded middle. Many modern logic systems reject the law of excluded middle, replacing it with the concept of negation as failure. That is, there is a third possibility: the truth of a proposition is unknown. (Wikipedia, on the Law of Excluded Middle)
ReplyDeleteThe universe is so big, I don't think we will know for sure. Will take too long and too much energy to travel the vast distances required - unless you really get wormholes or you can do something with quantum entanglement
ReplyDeleteLaw of excluded middle has no value here ;)
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't think we see the full picture Sam Collett
ReplyDeleteWe are far from alone in the Universe. To think life is somehow special to Earth is just blindly absurd. The Universe is teeming with life.
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu I don't think we ever will, but that does not matter. We let our imagination move us forwards, with a thirst for knowledge and understanding of at least part of the world and universe
ReplyDeleteRodney Dawes We basically don't know. It may be unique or it may be ubiquitous. Since we don't understand how the life chain to which we are a part started, we don't know how likely or unlikely it is. Scientists haven't come close to synthesizing it yet.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Rodney Dawes but I hope you are sarcastic when you say "To think life is somehow special to Earth is just blindly absurd."
ReplyDeleteLook around...people with natural lobotomy are everywhere.
Corina Marinescu either way, we are alone.
ReplyDeleteDisagree mimis dog-us
ReplyDeleteI personally think there must be, too many galaxies and stars out there. Even if it were just the Milky Way I would think that
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu actually, for me, it feels like the universe is already all-too-alive, after realizing what Christoph Adami has been talking about it in his wonderful TED talk on "Life we can't Imagine" ( http://www.ted.com/talks/christophe_adami_finding_life_we_can_t_imagine.html ). What do we mean by we and by alone?
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu when I see all the bad things that happen around us, I would like to go and live in a cave, without seeing anybody, but only the mountains and the sea and the little animals, which are better than us.
ReplyDeleteI think there are endless species out there and the Earth only inhabits some of them. I believe we are not alone and I am not terrified by that but rather intrigued.
ReplyDeleteMindey I. sometimes I like to hear other people thoughts...still I said SOMETIMES
ReplyDeleteIn short words Adami can talk whatever he wants...I know very well what I mean by WE and by ALONE, I don't need him or anyone else to tell me ;)
Rob Tedesco btw hi, and yep..Agreed =)
ReplyDeletemimis dog-us I'd take you much more seriously if you had like a humanoid name ;)
ReplyDeleteThe rest of the Universe has had over 13 billion years to evolve, before the entirety of the existence of humanity on Earth.
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu my name is Dimitris Dogas, I am Greek, I have Phd in Mathematics (non linear analysis), and I have writen Dogas like Dog-us, just for joke. I think I should change it to the real Dogas, but I don't know the conflicts with my registrations. In greek, Mimis is an other name for Dimitris.
ReplyDeleteThanks..sounds better mimis dog-us =)
ReplyDeleteI think we're not alone. But will it be life as we know it? I'd like to think so. But, I'm intrigued by the mathematical idea of "initial conditions". So what would life in another part of the universe look like? Don't know. But I'd be real curious.
ReplyDeletePhil Tiongson If there is another life somewhere in the Universe, it will be unlikely to have the same "timing" with us in the evolution. And of course, neither the initial nor the boundary conditions would be the same.
ReplyDeletePhil Tiongson mimis dog-us That assumes the initial and boundary conditions on Earth are unique, and that life on Earth originated here, and has never had outside interference since the original sprouting of life. Given the theory panspermia refutes that, it's also very possible that the original seeds of life that came here on space debris, may have landed on other planets that were prime for the development of life.
ReplyDeleteIf humans or our descendants ever reach the point of colonizing beyond our section of the galaxy, then even if earth is the sole source of life, we will eventually meet aliens. On a large enough timescale, culture and genome diverge; our own distant relations will become alien to us.
ReplyDeleteBut in the lenght of time and the deep of the space it make not a real difference, istn't it?
ReplyDeleteBryce Etheridge Cool thought! I haven't heard that one before. That would make a great science fiction plot. Now that I say it though, I guess ST:TNG did sort of go there... ;)
ReplyDeleteSean Walker That's basically the entire concept of BSG.
ReplyDeleteI believe that we are alone in the Universe because we can't communicate with the other solar systems, due to the velocity of light, which is very small, considering the distances in the space. And we should not forget the fact that in the Universe the word "now" has not any meaning. Eventhough there exists a civilization somewhere in the Universe, we have to ask, not where but "when" they are.
ReplyDeleteRodney Dawes And the Stargate series.
ReplyDeleteSean Walker http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Chase_(episode) is what you mean?
mimis dog-us Speed of light is irrelevant. As is time. Time does not exist. It is a local concept to deal with our own social problems and to help provide structure to activities on Earth. It also ignores all possible manner of faster than light travel and communication.
ReplyDeleteRodney Dawes I think one of us abstracting what Bryce Etheridge said considerably. He suggested that if humanity spreads throughout the universe over millions of years, evolution would cause the various trees of progeny to diverge fairly extremely. In BSG humanity is meeting back up with their robots. Similar idea, but quite different.
ReplyDeleteBryce Etheridge In the immortal words (oh, word) of Corina, Vrai! ;)
ReplyDeleteRodney Dawes I hope so. Perhaps in the future the human will find a way to travel or to communicate faster than light. And I have to admit that many times I have thought that the time is an illusion. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteSean Walker No. Go watch the original BSG. They meet up with other humans. The new BSG is quite different from the original. And I doubt humanity would diverge much, once we reached that level of advancement. We would be quite adept at dealing with varying environments to the degree of protecting ourselves from mutations that would occur as a result of them, in any sort of natural setting where we were not controlling our own environment to comfort ourselves.
ReplyDeleteHaving connected Corina Marinescu I will never be alone.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about connections. Inside the #brain and Outside of it. The truth is out there. Thank you All Google+ connections.
Not to be picky Rodney Dawes but mutations are not a product of environment, they are selected for by environments. Mutation occur necessarily due to recombination and DNA / RNA copying errors. Environment is a selective force in this context that includes all circumstances external to an individual which affect their reproduction - including members of the opposite sex and their varying tastes. So, for example, peacocks' tails aren't selected for by their inanimate environments, but instead by the taste of female peacocks.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, my point is that although an advanced version of us could arrest evolution, they would have to affect quite a bit of control over the mechanics of reproduction (genetic level) and human behaviour to do so... I'm not sure that an advanced society would opt to do that.
Sean Walker And not to be picky, but you're assuming that my use of the word enviornment is purely about the inanimate surroundings. The fact is that peacocks do not alter their surroundings to cater to their needs or desires, while humans do. I also never said that evolution would cease. It would however, be greatly altered. We've already done it here on Earth. We've been doing it for thousands of years. We're not very advanced or great at it yet though, so we end up with side effects that ore detrimental to our own well being, like toxic foods and climate change. But to assume that we will survive long enough to advance to the level of colonizing the galaxy, then I think it's also safe to assume that we would have gotten past all the religious and political nonsense that are forcing us further away from that goal, and understand how to control our own evolution much better than we do, or can even understand what evolution is, today.
ReplyDeleteInteresting lecture on the Drake equation (probability of intelligent life in the universe) with more current information on some of its variables.
ReplyDeleteThe Drake Equation Today Estimating the chances of life out there April 20, 2005
I never said that not being ALONE means other type of "humans" are out there. Is about life...other type of species that live in a way or another. I'm not interested to hear sci fi subjects. Universe is vast and full of life. We don't even know how many species live on this planet....but for some psychotic reason we KNOW what's going on in the entire universe? Satire of the burped brains...
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu So it is written. You can't argue with what some guys wrote a thousand years ago. Are you crazy!? :)
ReplyDeleteActually Rodney Dawes, I don't give a crap what others wrote...just another human opinions. However some opinions of some humans are digestible, therefore they tickle my fusimotors and demand answers. So is not craziness...just a event horizon at the cellular level ;)
ReplyDeleteCorina Marinescu That reply of mine was totally sarcastic, and a jab at religious zealotry. :)
ReplyDeleteI agree
ReplyDelete